Claude Gordon Brass Camp 1987 - Claude Gordon on Virtuoso Recordings and Antique Cornets

I feel a little bad on Friday rolls around because the camps will be over.
But I always sort of feel good on Fridays for another reason because I really enjoyed this session.
Let me start out a little bit.
You're talking about the number of bands in, what were they, 18, 89?
10,000 bands in the United States.
Now then the instrument companies really last long with this.
And they went so far as to even promote the school system.
That's how companies would have a music system in the schools,
because the music instrument companies promoted it.
And really were very successful at it.
There was the old Boston instrument company.
Some great players came out to have the old Boston Cornette School.
And then they started the instrument company in 1869.
And a lot of the great players played that old Boston Cornette.
I played the Boston three-star for quite a while.
There was a Boston three-star and a Boston four-star.
I've never run across a four-star.
That's the three-star we have.
Then came along William Pepper and sold out there.
And he started his company in 1887.
Now some of you may have heard of, may have heard of Diston,
because that was in his country club.
The Diston company, old Diston came from England
and started his company in 1877.
And he just left in 1877.
That's only a hundred years back.
It's not too long ago really when you think of what was developed in the last minute.
Sherman Clay in San Francisco was originally an instrument company.
That was in 1879.
Carl Fischer was originally an instrument company.
If you go to Carl Fischer in New York, you'll see an old con tuba.
It's got to be old.
You can't reach the top of it before it's sitting on the table.
Monster tuba.
It was playful.
The only thing is they had to put it on the cart completely,
because the guy couldn't carry it.
It must weigh a ton.
But he played it on a rare instrument.
And they still got that.
Then the Wiley Eaves.
I'm sure you all remember that.
That started in 1880 and became a big company.
However, in 1884, and it lasted up to about 1931,
the founder was Charber Gerard Carr, C.G. Carr.
It was in 1876 that he patented his very famous rubber rim mountains.
It was a rubber rim, and his idea was it would be soft on the mountain.
And then in cold weather, the mountains wouldn't freeze near it.
I used to play ice skating with him.
Outside, not inside, because you play ice shows.
Ice skating raced outside.
And they'd flood the whole park.
Everybody would die in ice skating.
So they'd always have a band.
I don't want to forget one time, I never realized it,
but that's not stuck.
23 below zero.
You put the horn up, and you take the horn off,
all the skin comes with it.
It just sticks on it.
So we used to pick them out.
We learned very quick to put them out.
We used to have a story.
I used to tell the young students that they don't know what cold weather is.
I said there was one time, I played one time this week,
and not one cycle came out of the horn.
It was frozen.
But I kept playing.
And at night, discussing me through the face behind the little puck
that I used to have at home.
And I went to bed.
In the middle of the night, I thought, oh, it's cute.
And that horn was falling off.
Okay.
Now then, after he got his rubber rim mouthpiece back,
a few of his friends and employees got together,
and they built the CGCon Bandage to Win Company.
This became the unrivaled musical empire.
No company even came close,
up until the young kids got ahold of the business owner.
And they went upstairs, and at the contract,
and they had the greatest museum of instruments that has ever been.
And these kids, right out of college, taking over the business owner,
they took a bulldozer up to the fourth floor
and bulldozed every one of those great antiques into a truck outside
and took it to the department.
This just destroyed it.
They were a company business man.
They had no idea of the value.
But that was an unrivaled empire.
Now, most of the companies that came after that were employees,
those engineers that were in the car factory.
Conn himself was a character.
He was a fucking guy.
They didn't think a guy would be successful,
but in the fourth.
But he was a great business man and promoter.
In fact, he became very, very well known.
He held public offices.
I think he went up to the governor and the state and stuff like that.
But in his factory, it was interesting.
The guys in those days were kind of roughed up.
And the guys were getting the fight in the shop.
So he had a great idea.
He went and built a ring upstairs, a boxing ring.
When they get in the fight, it blows down the whole factory,
okay, upstairs, and it all gathers around these two guys slugging out.
One of the earlier ones that came out of the Conn factory was Bishop.
We used to call him Boosher, but it was Bishop.
So he built the factory and the horns called True Tone Incidents.
And there's still a number to get that was written by Clay Smith.
Smith and Holmes, those three writers, both were players.
And the name of the tune is True Tone Ethnos.
So it's still quite simple to play it.
I just really care to play it all the time.
Then came Frank Holton, which became the Holton band that was in the company.
And he came out of the Conn factory.
Now, Holton built his factory in 1889 in Chicago.
And later on, he was the bonus with Susan, as well as working in the Conn factory.
And he and Clark became good friends because they both worked with Susan.
He played drop ball, of course, and Clark was the cornet solo.
So then later on, Clark and Holton got together,
and eventually out of that became the Holton-Clark cornet, Holton-Clark model.
That was very popular, a very good cornet.
That was at the time when they first started to let the cornet sit a little longer.
They would start taking that shepherd's crook out, which would get the bell short,
and then the horn got a little longer, because that was the popular style of cornet.
Now, the cornet was not a trumpet.
The trumpets in those days were just little, narrow, small bores
with bells that flared at the last minute, and they had an idiot sound.
And the only thing that came along later that was good came out of the cornet.
And that became the standard of the word at the old French vessel.
They weren't all good.
In fact, if you found a good one, it was great.
But you only found a good one once in a while, and there were more bad ones than there were good.
And everybody, I have worked, and today's kid people come up and say,
oh my God, this old vessel, how much does it worth?
Well, there was somebody who wants to pay for it.
And you don't know whether it's an old vessel or not.
It's probably been repaired, lead pipes changed.
I can tell you what happened.
A guy came in the collegial, I love collegial stuff.
A guy came in the collegial and he asked him,
Dominic, can you get me a good vessel?
Nihal.
Nihal was a trade man.
That was part of the company when the wife took over.
So Dominic says, yeah, I'll get you one.
So a few weeks later, he came in and he said, Dominic, did you get my vessel?
Yeah, yeah, you'll get to that one.
You get a brand new vessel.
And the guy left.
I'm standing there, having a glass of wine with Dominic.
And he says, I don't think it's good.
And I said, sure.
He said, I don't think it's good.
I said, what did you do?
He had made that horn and put all the vessel stamps on it.
So the guy was ecstatic.
He had a vessel.
So you see, you don't know, really.
And you don't have to know by that.
How does the horn play?
That's all you care about.
You don't care what name is on it, if it plays.
If it plays easy.
That's all you care about.
Then came the Blessing Company in 1906.
You probably said, yeah, I think we still might make some blessings.
That was in 1906.
And then Henry Martin, which is called Long Rocks, in the 1900s.
Then the Pencil Hewer in New York.
William Haynes, the Cundy Detney, which you've heard, I'm sure.
That's more of a museum.
And the King.
Now, King was interesting.
It's an interesting story.
That was a repairman.
Like you have in Los Angeles here.
What's his name?
Dave?
Bob Maroney.
And the other one, Rock Story.
There was a repairman like that.
His name was White.
H.M. White.
They repaired horns and all the guys.
He was in Cleveland.
Most everything was east of the tractor at that time.
So a trombone player named King came over to White and says,
can I get a trombone?
And they got together on it.
And the horn turned out, and he'd go play it.
This King would go play it on the job.
Everybody became so interested in the horn,
the person would go into White and say,
hey, would you make me that King trombone?
It became so popular that it became a King musical instrument.
It's just for making a trombone.
So if you look on the old Kings, it'll say King,
and then it'll say H.M. White.
And then later on, things changed there as well.
That's stuff.
All right.
Now, have we got the tapes?
Now, we're going to take these horns.
And Dave, do you want to come up?
And Tom, are you going to be tying up?
I'd like to have you play some of the things we've got here, too.
First up.
What?
You're here?
Come on up, too.
I want you to play something for us.
Who's handing the tapes?
I am.
What do you need first?
Yep.
Hold it.
Get up.
First of all, get up.
What's listed number two?
Winfrey Kemp?
I think the first thing.
You want to play my record of On The Mall first?
Sure.
I'll play it now.
Yeah.
This is a very interesting recording.
It was fun having Billy May do the arrangement
because he was a top student.
And he was more of a bowler type school, like Dawson.
And he really admired technical talent.
So he wrote some things that were almost too technical.
And one of them, and of course, there's some of them
which I'll introduce all the way.
Now, we have four trumpets.
You may notice what I was playing.
So I'm playing with the brass section.
I'm going to come up.
I stood up and did the solos.
So also, I'm playing almost constantly
through the whole recording.
And some of these passages are to get them clean.
It's almost impossible to speed.
We did three takes, and I took the second.
So that's it.
It's called On The Mall.
We're open to Texas March.
And we tried to make it commercial, too.
We put sequence in there.
So it's not that easy.
People in the bottom.
I think we can help you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It was a very young band.
When I got back in town,
I tried to question him,
to manage with you two,
to use the capital reporting app.
And I dropped the kids on the road
and used this, and I refused.
I said, if you're on the road,
never do it again.
Do you have any other content?
A young fellow named Don Ciccomanni
was on first.
Dick Forest on jazz.
Cool.
Got it.
I can't think of his name right now.
I've been listening to him on the back of the album.
So you'll see.
We had four or five of the same guys.
The oldest guy in the band was 22.
He was a young man.
Who was Alan Waite?
Who?
Alan Waite.
Alan Waite was on the road with us
with us in...
He was on the first road.
What was the date for that?
When did it start?
I started the band in 1950.
And you stick the studio band until 1955.
Then the band grew so much
that we had to go on the road,
or I wasn't going to try a studio band at all.
So that's when I got the kids.
Who was Johnny Warner?
Johnny Warner was sick that day or something.
We were going on the road,
and we had to do the recording,
so we called Dick Nash.
Great place.
Okay.
Now, the first cornet company in the world
was Antelope.
Antelope was the first cornet company
in the world.
Antelope was the first cornet company
was Antelope Cotloche in France.
One of Clark's very first cornettes
was the Antelope Cotloche.
And this is what it looked like.
Most of all, in those days, they were very clever.
They had a wide water pool.
So when these guys were playing fast,
they didn't have to worry about
going down and putting two of them.
They just pressed one of them and two of them.
They had a lot of innovations.
Now, if you open it up and spread it out,
it would be the same length as all the other ones,
but they'd grow them up and then short.
And of course, all the French writing on them.
And they played pretty well for old cornettes.
These are pretty old now.
You notice the re-pipes were all removable.
And they did that because in those days,
they would change the pitch of the instrument
all the length of the re-pipe.
Now, this one was about 1855.
So they went from 1855 up to 1867.
That was one of the last ones.
The re-pipe was the first one in flight.
They didn't come by homes easy.
They were harder yet.
Now then, we'll get you that.
Lock case?
The rebel?
The rebel.
They sent me the case, and it's a case.
I don't know why they do this.
They put such a beautiful case on it
that you don't pay attention.
The case is to protect the horn.
But now you've got to buy the case,
and you've got to buy a case cover to protect the case.
If you've got a real fancy case cover,
you've got to buy another case cover
to protect everything else.
I contacted the Portoir Company in Paris,
and I found out that Le Blanc today
handles the Portoir in this country.
They reproduced the original Arden Kornet.
This is the original Arden Kornet reproduced.
And I think this is a real treasure.
So I called Le Blanc,
and they very graciously sent me
one of the new Arden model Kornets.
It's just a beautiful little gem.
Oops.
And it says on the bell, very small letters, pirate.
And when you put it in your hand,
you're going to have trouble to follow.
Notice that the bell is short enough
that the quantity goes right down to the bell.
And it feels great in your hand.
And it's so short, it's very comfortable.
It's got a very, well, not huge,
but it's a large bell.
Now, this is advertised as a 468 bowler,
so that wasn't small, was it?
Well, there's a time I want you to blow this thing
while you're here.
And guess who can't do it
with the Portoir Company,
because they play a lot of Kornet
on the things they want during their life at the system.
Yeah.
Well, nice to be caught by you.
More sound?
More sound.
Yeah.
It's possible, right?
Yeah.
Whoa.
You've got to play this part.
You want one more, Tim?
Now, the nice thing about it
is the horn can be ordered.
So all of you that want,
are really interested in Kornets,
a good Kornet,
could contact the bank,
whoever is a LeBlanc dealer,
or contact LeBlanc.
But do one thing for me,
because they would graciously set the horn.
If you do, tell them what you saw on the horn.
Okay?
Yeah.
I think I have a home
worth $1,000-some-hundred dollars.
Do you want to ask, is this your company?
That's my company.
LeBlanc?
LeBlanc.
LeBlanc, yeah.
It's an argument, Kornet.
In other words, it's a reproduction of arguments.
Can you make a comment about why they added,
why they took it out?
They just did it to make it,
the Kornet was a short horn,
and the Kornet graduated all the way,
so instead of bringing it way out like a trumpet,
they took it quickly and made it shorter.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Now, these types of horns
were played by all the great artists
at the turn of the century.
Let's hear an Englishman
named Winthrop Kim.
Now, this is a very old record,
and some of the recordings were quite good,
but you listen to what's done,
and listen to the amazing endurance this one had,
the amazing technique,
and at the end, listen to where he killed.
Now, I'll use Kornet.
All right.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
Let's hear it.
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Good enough.
A little while later, Tom was always experimental.
And he came out with another one he called the New Wanderer.
This was the New Wanderer 1.
This came after that. They were extending it with more things.
The interesting thing about this, you notice it has, this was the original tuning belt.
They could tune it to a pair of string.
Now this is just a film of him.
But isn't that much more sensitive than having a bell with set screws hanging loose on the horn?
Like they call the tunable bell.
That you just see in the Chicago Symphony.
He says, wait a minute, Tchaikovsky, hold on.
I've got to tune this thing with set screws and everything and put the bell.
And then the bell hangs loose so it's not a solid connection.
You're going to lose a lot of vibrations.
But this one was part of the New Wanderer.
That's very sensitive.
This mechanism I'll show you on the next one.
Now this one is about, well I've seen several different ones.
472 and I've got one that's 487.
And it blows better than any.
They actually did use trombone members.
This one was 1917, called the New Wanderer.
This one was the Wanderer.
Right now then, they came out with the same idea as the New Wanderer and called it the Convictor.
In other words, it's not significant.
Now this one became an excellent horn.
This is the second horn I had.
I played it for about nine years.
It was a good instrument, very good.
Now notice this mechanism.
A lot of guys, you see, you didn't tune the horn with this.
You never touched that. You tuned it with this.
Now the response was excellent.
A lot of Dixieland players are still playing this.
I see them on some of these Dixieland bands when they come up on the screen.
So you didn't use this to tune.
But in those days you had a lot of A cornet pipes.
You'd have to change from B-flat to A, B-flat to A.
Now A was kind of a difficult transposition because you're reading down a half a step.
I never studied transposition.
All of a sudden when I got to school, it was before they started throwing these transpositions at me.
So I just had to do it.
When I devised a way, I could read down one interval and change the key signature.
I finally got so I could read A, which is all right, but B-flat.
C is an easy transposition.
But in those days they made horns and everything.
But the guys were musically educated that much.
Remember I told you that was in the early, especially out west.
Where they built fences and they built horses all day.
They didn't practice where they could.
So they'd condomized a quick change to A.
You'd pull the slide out.
When you pull the slide out, the horn gets terribly out of tune.
So he devised this mechanism.
Now watch for that. I'm going to pull the slide out.
Can you see it?
Now watch these slides.
It gets a little bigger.
And all the slides are calibrated before just the right length so the horn is in tune with A.
Then you play 16 bars and all of a sudden it says B-flat about it.
You just shove it in.
It's pathetic.
But he was very good at it.
Let's see what that did.
What's the date on that one?
The date on this one is 1925.
That's the new one?
No, that's the bigger one. That's after the new one.
That's 487.
So easy.
Again, it feels good in your hand.
You'll notice down the first...
The shuttlecock is almost gone.
We've got just a little bit of...
Let's get another record before we go on here.
Liberati was a name you all know.
Liberati could come definitely at 160.
16 bars.
I have 144 to make forward here for one minute in one breath.
Liberati 160.
Hart 180.
No matter what anyone did, Hart could outdo it.
All right, now this is Liberati.
And you notice, you can hear him strike his vows.
He hits his fingers that hard.
And boy, when he attacks, you know it's an attack.
Let's hear that one.
That voice was Edison.
This is one of the reason why they send cylinder records.
And the voice you heard was Edison.
They didn't print that.
They announced it.
Of course it did.
Let's hear it again.
Let's hear it again.
Liberati.
That one goes back a long way, the very first of those ones.
You notice there's no fear in this one.
It's the loudest.
Great old flair.
That's the longest cadenza in one novel.
That's what we can hear.
I'm glad you're here.
And I'm going to say our last words.
I'm going to say our last words.
The one that I love the most is...
I'm glad because the piano kind of gets in the way of us.
Now Clark did some beautiful things.
Clark had the greatest names of all, but he never recorded them.
They recorded what the public wanted.
And his technique is, it's a shame these old recordings don't bring out the sound.
All you hear is the pitch, of course.
That was all mechanical recording.
There was a stringboarder that played a sequel.
And the band behind him was called the Sousa Band.
It wasn't. Sousa refused to record.
He said that recording was going to destroy the music industry.
And he would not be absolutely refused.
And as a result, they would take about 15 guys out of the Sousa Band,
which was what, 120 piece band, and they'd use the same arrangements.
And so the problem was pretty bad.
But if you listen closely, and listen to the tremendous flawless smoothness of Clark had.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
The Sousa Band.
Okay. Now, I think the most popular Sousa Band has probably been this.
Every great corporeal instrument is free.
Argon is the classic.
If you're going to have your Argon's for free, you can try and watch this.
This is Bottom of Krill, whose teacher joined the Throne's Horn and the Lake of Chicago on Sunday.
Argon.
Argon.
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