Claude Gordon Brass Camp 1992 - Carl Leach on Marking Parts and Section Playing

Camp, has anybody got any questions about anything?
Especially from our last talk.
Anybody think about any problems that they want to handle,
or any solutions to, or anything like that?
Yes, sir.
I'm sure a lot of them.
A lot of them, yeah.
That's just not a good question.
Yeah.
It's a good question.
The next time I get back, I don't know if it's a good question.
Would you prefer if it was the same way you did so long ago?
No.
The only time you go below half full is on a pedal routine,
and it's the last note.
That's the only time you do it.
The rest of the time when you play,
never go below half full.
What happens is like you've got two forces that work, basically.
I'm just doing this to understand this.
You've got the horn coming back this way.
You've got the air coming this way,
and the lips are in the middle, right?
The reason somebody gets tired is this support starts diminishing.
Does the horn diminish when this starts diminishing?
No, it doesn't.
It keeps on coming.
So that's when you get problems with endurance and things
like that, because this isn't developed.
The air in the tongue aren't creating enough
to keep this thing off your face.
So the only time you're doing that, that's
why it's a low note that you're running out of air on,
so it's not like a lot of damage is being done.
And you never run out of air on a high note,
unless you want to bend some teeth.
So it's like you want to keep these things equal,
so it's like a standard policy.
You just don't want to go below half full when you're playing.
Pull as hard as you can.
Yes?
When did you get to a situation where
there was no leader support in your life?
Well, kind of give me more of an example of what you've done.
You say you're in a section.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
You say, well, the center's up here.
I mean, I've been in that type of situation
where somebody, whoever was in control of it.
And so all I did was I would, like,
because I would see something going a certain direction,
I'd say, well, why don't we take it to letter 25?
I was like, I just thought of a suggestion.
And they were, like, weak enough where they would say,
well, yeah, well, let's take it to 25.
And we would handle the thing.
And I would tend to, like, get accomplished
but I would always do it kind of in a serious way.
And it'll be over in a minute.
Because you don't want to, like, make waves.
Well, okay, wait a minute.
I was going to take it over now.
Okay. Yeah?
No, no.
Oh, guys, I don't want anybody getting into head trips here.
Just because we've got a bunch of trumpet players talking here,
we make reference to trumpet.
It means all brass.
It means trombone.
It means French horn.
So if you're getting bugged, get rid of that concept.
It's like, it's just brass.
Clyde used his trumpet because he had it on his face for 40 years.
You know?
It's like, that's all it is.
So our break is different for French horn.
And I think it's like a half-step difference in trombone.
The trumpet.
That's the C sharp.
And then they change.
Then they're very low.
That's sharp.
And then it clears up and it's high.
It's going to be.
Okay?
Remember that.
Okay, any other ones?
All you need is two pieces of me.
We'll air throw them and let them vibrate.
That's all it is.
Okay, so if you don't have any questions or if you think of them later on,
let me know.
We're going to do marking parts today.
One of the things that you're going to do when you start playing
is come up with the road signs that are common in music.
Now, whether you're playing a show and you have to mark these things,
you're going to have to do it the same way because there's another guy
that's going to play the part or when you come,
you know, if another guy's marking these,
you're going to have to come in and there are certain ways
that these things are interpreted in me.
Okay, so I just sketched out a bunch of notes and things like that.
Now, this is like a fermata.
It's holding over the first two beats of the bar.
Does anyone want that stand for it?
If you've got a TYMP.
So what they're usually doing is a tympani roll, okay,
and it's holding on that.
And then I'm just describing what could be occurring here
is you would probably get maybe three, four from the conductor
and then you're into the first bar.
Anytime you see like an X out like that, you don't play those notes.
They're kind of like cues, usually for the drummer.
The drummer might be just hitting some rim shots going bap, bap,
and then you're into the thing as conductors were before.
Is everybody cool with that?
Okay, now has anybody ever seen this sign here?
Anyway, that.
Anybody know what that is?
Yeah, what you guys, yeah.
Great, great.
I don't see this anywhere.
Usually if it's like you've got a long chart here.
This is the first page of the chart.
Let's say there's some acts that through the years have like altered
the beginning of their show or something like that.
Maybe they had like a band or like certain bars up front
that they just got rid of because they're just needed
or some changes were made.
There could be a whole bunch of music here.
Music lines here.
If you see this sign, this sign here,
you only draw it right at the very top of the page
and then the arrow goes right through the bar.
We're just tuned again, so let's see.
I'll do it here.
Okay, so that means forget this stuff.
The conductor is going to, whatever he's going to do,
go right here at this point.
And that's how you would mark it for yourself
if you're playing an act or something like that comes along.
That's the marking for that.
Okay, so let's do another thing here
and have you guys figure it out.
What's that mean?
Good, omit.
Now, are the beats omitted?
There's two beats into that bar, right?
Two notes, good.
That's exactly right.
You don't play these notes.
You're still going to count out the two beats
that are concerned there because you would come in there.
Now, the same thing would happen on if it's just like one note.
If there's one note, you'll see a complete circle around it.
That's the same thing as that.
These are used like, sometimes you see this like three bars long.
I mean, it could be quite long.
If it's a single note, you'll always see circles.
Okay, let's see.
How about this sign?
What's this mean?
Good, excellent.
That means whatever's happening there,
when you see that thing and the conductor is going to start beating,
it means the conductor is going to do bam,
and you're right on the first part of the chart.
There's no preparatory.
It's not going to count off.
It's not going to do anything.
This is a cute one.
Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't mean clean your glasses.
Okay, usually like I'll do that maybe a bar or two
or real close to a phrase that is like a little bit of a hackle
that I have to really pay attention to.
And let's see.
How about this?
Okay, what's that?
Good.
So you would just immediately go from this to this point,
like they never existed here, right?
Is everybody clean on that?
Mary's in the back of the book.
Okay.
Now, here's another.
Oh, yeah, these are gone.
These are like wiped off the face of the earth.
No longer there.
This is the cartoon piece.
What is called?
It's called opening a text.
It's called closing a text.
That's what this line is.
It's like this, this, and this.
Okay, if you saw these two letters.
Okay, what does this mean?
Count off.
Okay, whenever you see that,
that means there's going to be some type of count off.
It could be just the three, four, one, two, three, four,
whatever it is.
Now, usually when you do see something like this,
the guy that played it before you,
if it's coming to you and you see this,
will have probably notated what you're going to get from the conductive.
Sometimes it's just like three, four.
Sometimes you'll see like it'll be count off,
number one, two, three, four,
and the three, four will be maybe over wherever the, you know,
pretty accurate as far as where we are starting on the chart.
But whatever it is, it means you're going to be given that
as a count off.
Okay, so let's assume this isn't here.
And you see this state,
and when they're, you know,
they have several little skips they're doing off the stage.
Let's say you pick her up and throw her in the air
and then catch her or something,
but she goes away, but when you catch her,
well, because you're dealing with something
that's a little bit of a variable,
the conductor knows what the cue is.
You know, when he finally catches her in his arms,
that's the cue.
So it could be, you could be playing like 50 bars or 10 bars,
depending on whether he can do it or not
or whether they screw it up or not.
Whatever it is, you're watching the conductor only.
You don't watch the actor.
You don't do anything else.
When you see the sudden cord, at that point in time,
you better look for that cord and mentally note it
before you even start playing,
because you scan this stuff over before you start playing.
But if you haven't, while you're playing,
just kind of like real quickly look around.
You can see this cord is either at the end of the piece
or at the bottom of the chart.
Somebody like penciled it in or something like that.
You'll see this thing going off.
Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
All of a sudden you see the conductor go like this.
Cord.
Okay?
That's what I mean.
So cut and then cord, and you're right there.
And when you're cut out,
at that point in time and play that course.
That's exactly what that means.
It doesn't mean, you know, if you could just play
in the first bar, test your off and see where you're going.
Everybody okay still, hanging with me?
Okay, so, now sometimes you will see notations like this,
slashes usually over the first bar of the chart
or the first bar of the time chain.
And what this helps you with is knowing not only
how the conductor is beating this.
This means he's going to take it in four.
And so what you're looking at, you know,
as far as the tempo is going to be, if it's like this,
that means the conductor is taking it in two.
So when he's like, you know, and a lot of time conductors
don't have the time to go like real cleanly,
like one, two, three, four.
They don't do that.
Sometimes like they're watching a thing
and they'll go like, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.
You know, they're just giving you like the pulse basically.
So if you know this thing and you know exactly
where those beats have to fall
or how fast the chart's going to beat, okay?
And you could also have, you might have like count off,
write in two, let's say.
It's going to go one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two.
Am I going too fast?
Everybody's hanging in there?
Okay, let's assume this is the end of a chart.
Could be three pages long.
Could be one page long.
You'll see either segue.
What you mean?
Yeah.
Usually segue when you're playing show stuff
means that you're ending that chart.
Let's say you finished that thing, da, da, da, da, da,
off and it says segue.
It usually means there's going to be applause
and then you're immediately on to the next thing.
So you've got to really turn pages faster,
get on to whatever the next part's going to be
in the next music.
You'll either see this or VS.
VS means Vito Subito, which means if you took the time
to figure out what that said, you're too late.
It means like real fast.
Sometimes there's no applause, segue.
It's just like immediately into the next one.
Or you'll see DS.
You guys are familiar with that.
And of course you would go to the sign or DC,
which means that it goes on top.
Everybody hanging in there?
The younger players hanging in there?
Hi, Paul.
Okay.
Now, what does this mean?
Good.
So the pulse that's going along here in four,
it's going to be the same pulse as it goes into two.
So this would be da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
It doesn't change meter or anything like that.
It's real simple.
And let's see.
Tag, you'll see this thing.
Sometimes there's like a little sign thing or tag.
What this is noting is you're finishing a piece.
Let's say this piece goes on for a few more lines.
You've played the entire chart.
You've played like the last chord or something like this.
And you'll see down at the bottom,
you'll see two tag at the end of the piece, two tag.
That means you come back up here
and it's usually the playoff for whatever is going on.
Person walking off the stage,
doing their bows and walking off the stage.
Sometimes it's also notated as bow.
So you're either going to see bows or tag.
It's the same thing.
Just go to wherever that point is that they want to play.
And then anytime you do a tag or bow,
it's usually you're just paying attention to the conductor
and going to cut off whenever they get off the stage.
So it could be just a few bars.
All right, but you would start at that point.
Now, I think those are all the faces.
Has anybody seen something
that I haven't talked about here yet?
Yes?
Well, this whole variation of the chord
I've seen a lot of fans have used.
Oh yeah.
Okay, so let's see.
Oh, here, we'll do it here.
You would see something like this.
And it would be notated up here someplace.
Vamped OQ would be just additional.
Why did they say vamp?
That means you're going to stay on those things
until you get some type of a cue to continue at this point.
And the conductor would be the one again
that would give you that data,
like let's say they're running around on a bicycle
on stage, a unicycle or something like that,
and they've got to get to the certain point
and he'll just keep vamping and you keep playing
and then all of a sudden he's getting to that point
and he'll give you the cue and you continue on.
What I'd like to do is to work the chords.
This is why I can't give it.
But you have a better, better chord
if they use the three or four of them
to play the score against the vamp.
Oh, okay, yeah.
That would be a poorer way to write that.
That's not really acceptable.
One of the reasons why I wrote this in the book
and I did this lecture every year was after a while
there were getting so many inexperienced musicians
coming up to the rank that they didn't know
how to mark the price of profit.
And I actually got screwed up on the show
just because whoever did it before me marked it down
but didn't do it correctly.
Those things, boy, I tell you, any professional
when they start reading that stuff
they're gonna read it exactly the way I told you.
If there's anything off like where they have to sit
and think about it or like go on for a while.
Those types of things aren't the road signs
that we're used to seeing and interpreting in a certain way.
So it's like real important to have that.
And how I learned how to do this is like
when I started playing shows in San Francisco
I had no idea how to mark these things.
I've done real simple things in high school
and stuff like that but I mean as far as playing acts
that changed and the guy next to me was a veteran.
So all I did, I just kept my mouth shut
and only to the conductor yelled,
well, we're gonna put a cut in from this bar
all the way from bar 10 to bar 163.
And all I did is I picked up my pencil
and then I just kind of sat there
and I looked out the side of my eye
and saw how he was doing it.
That's how I learned most of that stuff.
And so it's a little bit easier
if you have a little bit more of that data up front.
It just helps you feel more comfortable in that setting.
So basically those are the most basic ones.
There's a couple other ones there
that keep getting less and less important
but those are the ones you're gonna see most of the time.
And make it real clear.
Everything is always marked in pencil.
And I think that's about it I think.
So are there anything else?
Yeah?
Yeah, it looks like a whole measure is circled.
Well, usually that it's,
again, that's a poor way to do things
because all of a sudden you're kind of like,
you're adding in a lot of lines and stuff like that.
The brackets would be the most acceptable way
to like bracket off one to a lot of bars.
And they just go like that, like that.
Guy, immediately when he's playing,
he sees this thing, he's not gonna play.
When he sees this thing, he's gonna start playing again.
So this is a little more awkward.
It would still be correct
and it'd still be interpreted that way.
He wouldn't play that.
Yeah, you start getting a little weird
because this thing looks, you know,
is that bar out or just the notes out?
You know, that type of thing.
So this makes it real clear
and it's a better way of doing it.
Anything else?
Yeah?
Post notes?
Oh yeah, those little sticking things.
Yeah, the way people take care of acts, music,
it wouldn't last.
If you want to do that, that's fine.
Yeah.
I've never had that, I've never had that.
It was the act that we were playing.
First touch the drugs, then touch the drugs.
So after that, it's first point
so they aren't throwing those things anymore.
So that you can't.
And whatever act you would have to do
are to erase all the stuff off that one
and then you would have to grab it and run from it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Excuse me.
Oh yeah, okay.
So like the part of the show where you guys,
okay.
I would still mark them.
I don't want to see like the usual little pieces
of the paper, especially when you turn the page with that
and all of a sudden one goes back and it's gone.
And you what?
How about that one?
Oh, god.
All right, brother.
I'd like to see it as I'm coming.
OK, somebody else.
When you're doing the tag there, you
want them to try to tag you in the plane
and you stop them at the second platform.
You keep on going until you get the cut.
Yeah, you'll keep on going until you get the cut.
This is used to get them off the stage or to resolve the act.
Whatever needs to be done, the curtain's being pulled.
So it's the filler.
It's like filler music at the end of the act
so that you've got, you know, there isn't like a lot of space
or time where there's nothing going on and no music.
It seems dumb.
Golly, I've had it where there was some problem with the act
and they didn't get off stage and we actually
played to the end of the piece.
And everybody's like, well, OK, now what do we do now?
But we just go right back to the tag.
Yeah, you just go right back.
OK, anything else?
Any other questions that this brings up?
OK, so how are you guys doing at camp so far?
Do you guys understand stuff?
Do you feel confident about going back to your home
room and handling stuff?
Are you going to be stable?
This is the first time that somebody's said,
I got it.
You're going to be able to handle it, hold your ground.
There's a way to deal with that.
I've actually had a few lessons this week
and talked to people about this particular thing.
You guys are going to be having the correct data
on how this stuff works.
You're going to be going back to your school.
You're going to be with professors and things like that
that have tenure, that are kind of set in their ways,
that have their own little universe of ideas.
And so that you don't create problems,
the best way to deal with these guys,
especially if they're very, very have a fixed viewpoint.
Some people, you'll always find out they've got trouble
with an area.
Some subjects they've got trouble with
because they'll have a stranglehold on them.
They aren't loose.
They aren't free on it.
They aren't open to at least look or at least resolve things
on it.
They'll take a look at it and say, well, yeah,
that makes sense.
Anytime somebody isn't like free on a subject,
they're actually inadequate.
Anyway, in dealing with these guys, don't waste them.
Now, if we get a little bit heavy duty here,
Dave Evans puts heavy duty on people,
or 40 figures and things like that.
We all do that.
We've all fought with these people all our lives.
But the best way to handle it,
sometimes you'll have to take lessons with a professor
because it's why they're so free, right?
Okay, well, instead of going in there and saying,
well, Rod Gordon says to do it this way,
which immediately you're telling the guy he's full of,
you know what, and he's not going to say,
well, yeah, I am full of, you know what.
He's going to actually get a little hostile about it,
and then he's going to play a mind game with you
and trying to become that quote unquote authority again.
The best thing to do is let you see where this guy stands
or wherever he stands or where that person is delighted.
Say, yeah, okay, I'll do it that way,
and then just do your thing.
Do it the right way, okay?
Yeah, Dave.
A couple years ago, a guy came to the airport
and he asked me how to do it.
And the guy said, great, yeah,
and he went straight to college.
And he's been out on the road and all kinds of stuff.
He comes to my studio and he's never met me.
And the last lesson that day comes in,
he's down to the first four thousand dollars
and I hate college stuff.
How am I going to do it?
So do I, have a beer.
So we go to the pub, have a bottle of beer,
we come out, look back, what's next, what's next, what's next.
Then I don't want to work on those sort of things.
I don't want to work on those kind of things.
So they call the company, located in front of the box,
went back to the bus stop, had another beer,
threw a lesson, finally come to the end of it.
I think I like, I think I'm sick.
So it's like, unless you're for much over 21,
it's like, you know, you've got to watch the edges
before you go to college for any situation,
like I'm saying, where you're after school hours,
a day in Africa, you know.
And because you're going to be there for a period of time
or you've got to be around this person on a daily basis
or more than that, you've got to be real cool about this stuff.
You know, the first time I got caught in stuff,
I was so jazzed, I was so thankful somebody cleared away
all the trouble and crap that was going to happen
in the right kind of time, or in order,
and made it very clean and understandable
and took all the mystery off the line.
I mean, I was jazzed.
I went to everybody and I was like,
hey, man, this stuff, you've got to do this stuff
with this, with this.
You know, I mean, I was like,
I almost overwhelmed everybody I met, you know,
in the movies and stuff.
Well, boy, I tell you, there were some people
that got incredibly hostile, you know,
and I just couldn't understand it.
You know, it wasn't that difficult.
Wait a minute, this makes sense.
It's got to work.
You know?
I'm just giving you a little bit of experience,
you know, to play along with it.
Say, yeah, I'll go home and I'll fill my lead pipe
with water and I'll blow it into the sink
and just get that peel of how it's supposed to be
and stuff like that.
There's a guy in Las Vegas right now,
that's a lot of these students.
They fill up the lead pipe with water and they blow it
and they learn how to play.
You know?
And it's like...
Ooh, it's poppin'.
Brumpa!
So, anyway, that's just the word to the wire.
But if somebody is like, really on you
and it's getting a little bit too suppressive, wait.
Don't ever, you know, you can only go so far
and put up with so much, you know,
you're eventually going to have to,
somebody is like, really thinking about it.
Wait for it.
Let's see what you can do.
You know?
Do something like that.
So what have you done?
Todd's got credentials that...
probably enough for a 50.
A 50.
Well, I mean, the things he's accomplished
which make him qualified to be an authority.
Oh, speaking of which, the Fanfare Group,
you're going to meet here at 645?
Okay, 645 cuts us,
and we're going to just run through a couple.
Well, if you're in the Center of Music, LA, New York,
most of the larger centers of music,
you're going to have to join the music.
I actually think that unions have worked themselves
into a point where they're detrimental,
but you've got to understand unions evolve
because of abuses for management.
So now we've got two factions,
management hates unions,
and unions is management,
and these guys are so stupid,
they can't figure out,
they can't get together and make solutions
instead of problems.
All they're doing is fighting.
They're like, hey, let's sit down
and figure out a solution.
Management would like to be protected
from people that get tenure that aren't capable.
Guys that are capable don't want to be abused
and work for the rest of their lives
fifty seconds an hour.
So it's actually not a good situation right now,
that you're going to have to join the union,
if you will,
and it seems real stupid to pay dues
to somebody that never seeks a job for them,
and you're going to have to pay dues
and rarely back you up.
And it seems to be just collecting monies
for the main, you know.
It's like, I'm union, I'm union.
Because I live in Nevada,
which is a right-to-work state,
so they pass it through the legislature,
the casinos give it,
so that they don't have to pay,
they can get nine union people.
So it's a right-to-work state,
but you don't have to be long for a union there
to get a job.
This makes it real tough on unions,
and that's why we got killed in 1988.
We took out all the workers,
we couldn't pay them.
So we fought them for like eight months,
but eventually, because the local had no money,
and the other unions were so scared,
that after thirty days, they had a clause,
after thirty days,
that the other unions can go out
and honor your strike line.
We could have handled it then.
None of them honored the strike line.
They were so afraid for their jobs,
because it was a right-to-work state.
As soon as they left their jobs,
they were replaced by nine union people.
But they didn't go out and honor our line,
and we took a hard left.
So there's good and bad things,
but you're going to have to join it.
There's still strongholds here in LA,
you know, you're going to work non-union jobs.
I can guarantee it.
If you're going to be in the unions,
you will work non-union jobs.
You look over,
particularly don't say,
hey, man, I got a job over here.
You know, don't say it around anybody else.
It's like a zealot, union zealot, you know?
Be cool about it.
You'll do sessions.
We've all done sessions,
we've had sessions.
But you're just going to have to like,
this is real vicious
about who you're telling the truth to.
Yeah, you don't need to do it.
I did.
I used to be going to a session,
but this is a non-union thing.
If you're a non-union guy,
you don't say,
yeah, I got a session this morning, you know?
Because everybody else is like,
they're jealous, you know?
Yeah, like, where is it?
Oh, nine unions?
I think the mic is on.
Guys, you know,
I'm growing up to represent it.
It's down there.
It's all sorts of problems.
That's what I feel right now.
Can I have a laugh?
It's like I'm jumping both sides of this thing.
Anything else?
You need a beer?
A cold beer?
A problem?
Can I talk about mouthpiece?
Okay, so another thing is,
it's like if you're at this point in camp
and you have any questions,
and there's probably still a few of you
that have things that you don't want to say
in front of larger numbers of people
because you're too embarrassed about it,
take Dave, take Tom,
and Bruce,
any one of these guys at the conference,
so you can get this over with.
Okay, that's what we're here for.
We did this camp a long time ago
because we were sick and tired of the junk.
We went through, and we're here to help.
We don't make money with this camp.
How old is this camp?
15 years?
We have yet to make money.
We did it solely because it's a health pool.
All the guys here have gone through problems
in their career and know what it's like,
and we want to stop terminating
what you call the crap that's in this field
and start getting to the point where you guys
can handle the basics and go out
and say what you've got to say.
Oh, I had one company student
that I pointed this out to.
Maybe Clive already did it.
If you already heard this,
just keep quiet because I can't always hear it
during the talk.
You've got a keyboard here, okay?
A piano player.
Every note the piano player will ever play
has been made for him.
It's sitting there right in front of him.
His keyboard's made.
You understand that?
You guys, then he learns how to play.
The problem with having a brass playing
and how they start the nodding schools
is they don't build the keyboard first.
So the guy learns how to play
and then he scuffles through,
and you usually have somebody
that kind of has some knack
and he finally escapes through the system
to the point where he excels at stuff.
But if you're here to get the keyboard made,
then you go out
and learn how to play.
Okay?
You kind of understand that.
Sometimes you won't get quite as frustrated about it.
But it's definitely,
and that perspective
is a little bit cleaner.
Okay?
So that's it,
and you guys have a little bit of time
for the next lecture,
and just enjoy it.