Claude Gordon Brass Camp 1987 - Claude Gordon on Mouthpieces and Gadgets

Transcript Summary

How are we all feeling today?
I want to bring up some of the memories
players have come up to me
Boy, I feel stiff
and uh
It doesn't seem to feel good
It's hard to plan today
Generally the reason for that
is when you get out in the hot, dry weather
that will affect
the way you feel and when you get to altitude
it will affect
the way you feel
So don't be surprised if you don't feel
just up to shape
Every time you move to an area
especially in the higher altitude
it will seem hard to play
At Vegas, or not Vegas
at Faham
I had to look up there
in the showroom
and now that's
about the elevation of fear
As you
go on stage, you're wearing an
oxygen mask
and everyone, all the actors
and artists
when they get back just before
they go on stage, they grab that oxygen mask
and take a few things off the oxygen
and run out because of the altitude
Yeah, you got that caught me?
But it does
affect, so don't worry about that
just momentary, if you were here all the time
it would be easy
That's the wonderful thing about the
the human body
It will adjust
to almost anything
and it's a wonderful machine
Isn't that right, doctor?
It will always adjust
and it takes care of itself
and then it's wonderful because you don't
do anything about it, it doesn't run us over
The only thing you do is generally
tear it down
Okay, now then
when we were talking
have you got your
park technical studies with you?
Of course I have
We've got the projector coming in?
Alright, now
we have talked all week
about the natural elements
of flame
We all understand what we mean
by the elements that make the whole
Group force is not going to make it work
at all
Now we have to
in Clark's technical studies
I want you to turn to
number nine
which we discussed before
and in the older copies
when the text is right
you notice he says
no strain is necessary to take about
Now in the
they're looking for it now
and that particular
clinic that I was doing that
I took this
G to G
four times in one breath
I was playing when I was
six times in one breath
not this last year
I took
four times in one breath
and that comes
you'd see that
So I put on the videotape
and demonstrated what you can do
four times in one breath easily
So as soon as they find
that one, we'll run that and show you
what that is
That's to bring up the fact that you can play
those things easily
if you're playing correctly
Now someone tell me, let me see your show of hands
What does he mean in that statement
when he says no strain is necessary
is played properly
Come on now
You've been listening all week, you'll know
You've been practicing
developing properly
Right, developing what?
What is playing properly?
Chest up, big breath
big breath, and what else?
Tongue movement
When the tongue is in
the right position
And we're probably
going to try and have a little fun
this morning too
Let's have the
as soon as you find that
Let me know
In the meantime, Dave
Evans, is he here?
Carl, you're here
Come on up and tell a couple of jokes while I run out in the car
and get my knee
Yeah, it is
Who's the north turner?
I never have
I forgot something
that's very important in the truck
I'll be right back
I'll be right back
Well, why don't we
How's everybody doing?
Very good
Anything out of this so far
this week, anything that
needs to be handled?
Anybody got a question about anything?
Is the routine going okay?
Very good
You're all very good
A lot of numbers
A lot of numbers
Very good
I can't think of anything
I can tell here
What about the elephant?
What about the elephant?
The elephant
The elephant
Oh yeah
I can tell that
When I first
was saying it to Todd
he had me go and watch
and he had this little walk
and stand on the other side of the desk
and I'd actually
been hanging out a little bit too late
that night before
and it was funny
he hadn't ever checked my range study in
he would just tell me what to do
and then we would handle parts of the lesson
at that appropriate time of importance
for some reason
I wasn't feeling that great
and he asked me to play
a range study
and I got up to
C to G
and I knew I was going
I knew I was going to go on the next one
like the string was just getting there
and I was cutting off circulation
I was trying to force a lot of things
sure enough when I hit the A flat
I just
played it
and then I let off
and then it's like funny things go through your mind
it's like save the horn
save the horn
and it's like the way I go out
I don't know how you guys do
I fight it all the way
I don't go out like it kind of breaks them down
I mean it's like I jerk
it's like half of it's going like
stay here stay here and the rest of it's like
oh come on lay down then
so it's like jerking mathematically
and I'm trying to save my horn
and Claude's talking to me
and I saw him out of the corner of my eye
like I'm trying to handle this thing
and I'm trying to go toward the desk
and I'm jerking
and he gets up he's leaning on the desk like this
oh he says I've done that before
you do ultimately don't do it
and it's like I can't talk
and I'm going over and I
and I finally got down on one knee
and he's still talking to me
he expects me to like that
he says just relax now
just relax everything's going to be fine
stuff like that and I find out
he's down on my knee I said
Jesus Christ Claude shut up
I couldn't I couldn't talk to him the whole time
anyway it does happen
from then on
from then on I just
hardly ever hung out
especially before lesson day
well that one
the man I use
the man
okay now what we're going to do basically
hang on to those books now
we'll get everything ready while we use them
I've got slides here
I don't want to start
I don't want to stop
I should have turned into that yesterday
where I subdued everything I've got
okay now then
take your part book
take that study
the main study
take the very last one
where it goes
low G to high G
down four times in one breath
now I talked about this a lot so I decided
on this particular
clinic to demonstrate it
one more time and have it on the tape
so you can see it's done
now my fingers aren't what they used to be
I slow down
breath control
we better put it on tape anyway
to make sure it can be done
you've got a little bit of a talk
funny guy
funny guy
you have to destroy it
and then as you'll notice
I can do it four, five, six times
but now
I get a little
it's slowed down
the first thing
the chest must be up
bring it back
I believe it is easy
what did he say
what did he say
okay I want to get
that demonstration out so you can see
that it is done
and it's not that phenomenal a feat
if you're playing correctly
what I want to do is encourage you
to play correctly
you're never going to do anything like that
if you're pushing your stomach out
if you're jamming that horn in your mouth
and just using sheer force
your tongue level has got to be right
and when the tongue is right
it'll just pop right out
that takes practice
one of the things I mentioned to tie up a lot of loose ends
is that
there's plenty of room at the top
everybody's worried
gee can I make it
can I make it
and Paul Witt brought off the other night
and I think some of you might have got the wrong idea
he was bringing out the fact
that if
you're going to shoot for the top bracket
the main requirement
is you've got to play your horn
it's not that the jobs aren't there
like if the jobs weren't there
I wouldn't probably make it
they're there
but you have got to be able to do your job
now there's lots of guys
that they get in on politics
but they won't stay in on politics
sooner or later it's going to show up
and they're going to be out
a good example is when
Conrad Gossel died
no one yet has filmed that spot
and it's a good example
no one yet has filmed that spot
many guys have tried
but the spot that he
and the reputation and what he did
has never been filmed
I think
on that particular type of playing
I think Carl
Leach has more of a sound
that could film that spot
than anyone
I know of
it's the same big, fat
strong sound
so there's all these spots
everybody gets to a point
the guy is retired
there was a very
famous name
a carpenter in Los Angeles
last year who sued his doctor
he went to the doctor
and what happened
I know exactly what happened
he's been going on
you and what he knows
what happens
you don't stay constant
you're moving, you're either going up or you're going back down
and when you start slipping
you don't realize that
first thing you know you're having a hard time playing
you don't play
in the first chair anymore
you move over
because it's not quite as patsy
first thing from that you move over again
he decided
that he had
a callus on his lip
so he decided
to go get a surgeon
to remove
so he went to the doctor and the doctor was smart
he said I really don't want to
touch it
I don't want to mess with the purpose of my lip
and of course the general public
is born with lip, look out
and be careful
so he said I really don't want to do it
he said why don't you think about it for a couple of weeks
we'll come back and see
we'll talk about it some other time
he came back a couple of weeks
yeah I want to do it
he's bothering me and I can't play
that wasn't why he couldn't play
but it shows
that he was in trouble
otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to move
I had several students problem with the needs
post department back then
and I told him to forget it
and of course gave him the things to do
the callus
also mentioned go away if you leave it alone
if you keep pounding it in there
it's going to get tougher
so he went back
another two weeks and he said yes
I'll do it sir
he signed the paper and all that
and the surgeon was not very happy about it
but he did it
right now afterwards it healed
and other doctors testified
that it was a very successful
everything he was supposed to do was done
done correctly and that
so now the callus tissue is gone
so he started to play and he still came back
so in the testimony
he was brought up that he couldn't play
above the middle seat
and he used to be quite
a known player
solo player
so all the trumpet players around town
would go over and play with them
or work but the only thing is
the kid has tried to play duets together
that's not going to help it
in other words they didn't go about one thing right
to improve it
his lip was still there
it was soft and pliable
there was no reason he couldn't play
the doctor didn't hurt his lip any
because I've had guys with surgery
that you wouldn't believe
I've had students with hair lip
played great
you don't know what a hair lip is
I didn't describe that
I slipped out a note
some of them had it
surgically together
they all played
so this guy can play too but he's doing
everything wrong
he came out of college playing pretty well
as a result he never really knew
how he played so when he got the trouble
he went back
all the things that you hear talk about
lip, always the lip
always on the lip
small mouthpiece
you get a real small mouthpiece you play high
that's what they say
more open mouthpiece it's much easier to play high
you get the small ones
and it's constantly backing up
as it backs up for you
that mouthpiece you get that cast for you
and the only way to do it is to play alcohol
for a while and then start playing correctly
so anyway
he sued the doctor
went into court
the lawyer happened to call me
and asked me
what I thought about it
did I just quote him the truth
I said there's no reason you can't play again
he said yeah, lip's fine
well fortunately he went into court
and he ordered a videotape
he studied it
he came out and talked to me for a couple
and he went into court
and he was on the case
he tried to play a lawsuit
and he should have lost it
he had no right to sue that doctor
but again, now we have
doctors in the East Coast
saying that they can surgically
help your plane
and well that's
that's dangerous
in LA there's some wide open lawsuits
there's dentists now
that will separate your teeth
because a lot of guys think that there's an opening in their teeth
the air goes down
you ever put your mouthpiece up there
it's right on the teeth
how's it going to help the air come through
now they're taking the chips off the teeth
I had a
I did a clinic in the
what was it?
the Midwest somewhere
and a couple brought their son up
and they said well
what do you think about
his dad said his dentist
he said that
his teeth were all wrong with the plane cover
he said that they could
he should have all his teeth removed
and he could put them in and fix it and then he'd play
and I said
actually no, I said look at all his teeth
they look fine
I've seen guys with teeth going this way, this way
forward, backward, everything
they play great
teeth have very little to do
now if you
are bad at playing
and you happen to have a tooth replaced
and it may be a little longer
now the feel is different
that can affect you
for a while
Dave Evans went through that, right Dave?
I used to have to talk to him
like a Dutch uncle
even if he was getting discouraged
and he finally asked an archer to go back to the dentist
and have him measure that again
and make sure it's the right length
and it's also
Dave will wear this out and explain to him
well, you'll eventually get used to it
and that's the whole problem
so teeth have very little to do with it
so all these things are gimmicks
to make money
on the brass player
who is the most gullible person in the world
if I told him to buy anything
if he thinks it's going to give him a hard time
and it's funny
they'll go through all that
rather than just sit down and practice
and learn to do it correctly
the biggest phobia of all
is the mouthpiece
and that's what I'm going to get into today
I never
talked mouthpiece before
I tried to stay away from it
I would let you
always to get an open mouthpiece
that's racist
can you all see this black one?
Dave, how come you didn't
I'm on the order of transition
now let's
I just want to think logically
you have
two lips
I'm not going to draw that out
but there are two lips
on the mouthpiece
that's on the lip
now then
how come those lips vibrate?
so as long as that air is going through
those lips are going to vibrate
but supposing something
interrupts the air
what's going to happen?
it won't budge
then we're told that the facial muscles
have to be very elastic to move
because they hold the lips in place
so that the lips will keep vibrating
but now
we get here
a mouthpiece
a really shallow cut
a really tiny drill
they're putting 28
down on the 29
that's a pinhole
too small
then this
drill is actually flat
and they make it a fairly long drill
then they get a real
straight back and forth
now you start bowing
the air goes through
the lips start to vibrate
now all of a sudden just past the lips
it hits all this obstruction
just like a dam
a little tiny cut
long straight away
narrow back walk
now that air goes in there and it goes through
is that going to
keep the vibration going?
it will stop
so as a result
the vibration doesn't want to go out
so you blow harder
now you're blowing harder and it's kicking
back more
now it is resistance
and you have to have resistance to play
in the upper rims
that's why resistance to play anyway
so let's take another example
take the lips again
now we're getting an out piece
now let's open it up
let's go with a V-type cut
now a V-type cut is never a straight V
it always occurs
regardless of V-type
here's a more open drill
and a sharp straight
one you can have no stick with
but it's better to have a little bit
bigger and greater
now we're going to out piece a little shape
like that
now here comes the air
which one's going to vibrate the best?
the lower one of course
I was doing a clinic one time
and I think somewhere
I asked everybody
I said what's going to vibrate the best?
because this is going against
everybody's ideas
and all of a sudden some little fella
this guy says the bottom one
he can see it right now
because he wasn't thought enough
with ideas
and that's obvious
this one is going to vibrate better
now then someone will say
well yeah but how am I going to get high notes?
you've got to have resistance
and the young player he gets to type out
the small one and that puts resistance
so he thinks he's going to go higher
he will if he knows
then's when he starts to force it
now then
how does he go higher?
now let's think seven minutes about that
tone again
when it raises he gets his resistance
it's in the mouth ahead of
the vibration
now we understand the reason
that you should get resistance
after the vibration starts
or before it starts
now when that tone raises up
that air velocity picks up and boy
it's going through that mouthpiece
and they keep vibrating
the mouthpiece only channels it
into the instrument
now another thing
this is resistance
you've got resistance
in a small drill
you've got resistance in the length of the drill
I'll just put R
you've got resistance in a tight backboard
you've got resistance
in a very shallow cut
but you're fighting
all the time
and that resistance never changes
in the low notes
the middle notes, the high notes
you're still fighting that resistance
the tongue
is ahead of
the vibration where it belongs
and it's a moveable
when you don't need it, it drops
when you need it, it comes up
so you've got a moveable
resistance and a set resistance
you've got a resistance inside
the mouth where it belongs
or outside the mouth where it's kicking back
and stopping the vibration
it's just common sense
now they
they say
they call
they call them
high notes mouthpieces, there's no such thing as a high notes mouthpiece
but they call it that
and they sell millions of them
you go into the mouthpiece maker
and you say
what problems do you have?
well, high notes
oh, I'll fix that
you don't go to a mouthpiece maker with your problems
he makes the mouthpieces
you find out your problems with someone
that knows how to play
now that's not running down
a mouthpiece maker
he can make anything you want
if you tell him what to do
and then make sure that he does it
some of them
do what they want anyway
like I went into Greeky one time
I said I want
I want it made this way, this way, this way
okay, I fixed it
so he says
I'm waiting for it, it is great
they don't want it right now
so he turned the lathe and he started out
beautiful grass
using a
screwdriver for a lathe
he never went down and bought a fine lathe
he uses a screwdriver, he filed it down
just beautiful work
so now then
he looks over and he says
put it down
why you work so hard?
I said no no
that's easier
if it were harder I wouldn't do it
I said it's easier
you know it works alright
he says, you sure?
I said yeah
he gets it all set up and gets it going
he says, 20
I said yeah
you sure?
so he drove
and there was people out there then so I took it home
it was terrible
so I got out the drills and measured it
he had a 28 in it
so you have to
be careful because they will
go what they think
so you don't go with the mouth please make it seem like gee I'm having trouble
he goes well maybe we better
well let's
try and lengthen that through
let's try and close that part, thanks
do you understand what I'm getting at?
sometimes guys will think the mouthpiece that they have
they have to open it up
drill either themselves or have somebody
drill a larger hole
that's not necessarily such a good idea
it will lengthen the straight away
it will change things but you don't know if the mouthpiece will match up
it probably will
if it's too tight it probably won't
but I don't think
drummers don't have a real mouthpiece
it's better than a lathe
when it's done correctly
and I'll never forget
the first
or I think the second lesson
of the class
and I had what they used to call
a Rudy Muck cushion ring mouthpiece
you know what I mean
oh this is a disaster
it had a rim about that
and a little teeny
shallow cup
so I started
playing this
you hear this
and then I look down
and I say
I better get you a lathe
next lesson
I came
I still had it
let me see that mouthpiece
I'll come with it
many drummers
around the majority of Baja
but at that time it was what they called
whole time one
I had the long cup
open drum and nice backboard
I think the backboard
there were several of those German backboards
that were pretty good
there was high, there was Smith
and a couple others
so I said play that
I was scared to death not to
and at first
I felt terrible
because I wasn't playing right
I wasn't using my tongue or anything
and if you play on a real tight mouthpiece
it's like if you lean on a door
and you get used to leaning on that door
and you're not standing on your own two feet
somebody opens the door you fall down
and that's just what happens
you're playing on that tight mouthpiece and leaning on it
finally you take it away
and you feel like you're falling through it
then you won't stay with it long enough to
live right or feel it
now I want to make one thing clear
I don't give a
car guide who
what mouthpiece you play
and I'm not going to tell you what to play
but I'm going to show you
what makes a good mouthpiece
and the difference between a good mouthpiece
and a bad mouthpiece
you find a good mouthpiece
and you play it the rest of your life
there's no reason to change
mouthpieces, believe me
it's not going to help you
every time you do it's absolute confusion
the lips get confused
the tongue gets confused because now
the resistance is different
and it's more dangerous than the mouthpiece
is changing the rim
and that's really confusing
and guys who go out in the theories
oh gosh I'm going to get a little sharper
edge in there and that will give me a better attack
that's baloney
all you want is a good
the mechanics of things do not
do it for you
you get two sharper rims it's going to be very uncomfortable
and guys come in with
other cups and everything else just from the sharp rim
that's why
on my personal mouthpiece
it's not designed to sell to people
I'm not a mouthpiece maker
I had it made because
it was a comfortable mouthpiece that I could play
the rim on it is
actually Del Steger's rim
I got it off of the original Del Steger's rim
it's beautiful
and the cup is
the cup from Clark
the back door is the same as Clark
and the drill is a 20
22 drill
and that's what I was using on all my plays
that's a 20 drill and in fact on the tape
I had the mouthpiece and it was showing
the ridiculous thing of hanging your horns
on a string
and I was playing
and on the horn they pulled it up
and the horn went up and all of a sudden I realized
I forgot my mouthpiece with it
I forgot to take it out
but you'll see the mouthpiece
after the double seeds, the panel seeds
the kinetics, it's all left
same mouthpiece, 20 drill
long cup and an open back door
that is very important
now what happens
every player
and it happens with French horn too
they didn't use to with French horn players
so much but now it's getting that way
Brad plays a
very open French horn office
number one
that's a pretty good size
Casey plays close to that
I don't want to fool around
or fool around
get the best mouthpiece you can find and stay with it
your whole life, you grow
through a mouthpiece, that's the deal
you have to come up
and if they're having a struggle
so they run out the mouthpiece maker
they get another mouthpiece
smaller generally
and first
the grass is always green on the other side of the fence
it's great
this is just what I need
when you go home
might play a job or something
about three days after you got it
can't play
can't play
so right away, in the car
down the mouthpiece maker and you get another one
he adjusted so little
and he said, oh that's it
that's what was wrong
so you go home, about three days
the barn is out
right away
boy back to the mouthpiece maker
the same thing
about three days is when it happens
can't play
so finally that happens a few times and jeez
I'm playing better alone
I better go back to my old one
you can't play that either
now you're not used to it
Jerry Kenny
was a fine jazz combo
he really was a fine player
did you ever hear anybody
I guess no one
else did that here either
but Jerry was an excellent combo
and he had played
an old rock 11
combo mouthpiece
all his life
and he started to take
he was represented for the
when he started to take these
representatives around
and of course at that time
not walkers, what's the other one
Herbie Green
so he was flying
Herbie Green, I'd like to get into some of his flying shows
he was a pilot
some of the greatest
stories you ever heard is the way they're still
he went into Canada with Herbie Green
went into the
at that airport
if he falls in, I'm pulling in there
if he falls in, it's really touching
so he's bringing Herbie in
and he didn't
follow flight plan
in Canada, that's mandatory
and happening
so he didn't follow his flight plan
and he falls in and it's all fall in
can't see the airport
now these big jets are coming in
and he's up there
and he falls in
and such and such
so I'm getting low on fuel
did you follow flight plan?
he said no
he said well you can't come in
he said I gotta come in
and I said no, it's no plan
and he goes right on into everything
right down on the field
of course he got pulled in
and got some nice airs and all
but that's the way
Jerry was
now he's flying with Herbie
who's a great promoter
and they're talking all the time
and of course you know what they talk about?
so they talk about Herbie and he says
why don't we try this jet plane
he says
they have the Herbie Green model
well the fact is that Herbie can play anything
he's a fine promoter, he plays correct
he might not feel as comfortable on something
but he can play anything
so finally
they got validated
Jerry has a concert
to do at the pot
two or three weeks later
he called me
he says something's wrong, I can't play
he said I gotta do this concert
this week
I said alright
calm down, I don't know what's wrong
so he starts to play and I said oh wait
you play good, I heard you play
you don't change overnight
I said maybe you're tired
you've played too much, you're stiff
no, that's not it, I feel great
I just can't play
I said alright let's put it in the door
we started talking
finally it came out, he said well
I was with Herbie Green
and we got this new Jecto
and I said how long you have that
it's about a week
I said did you have any trouble before then
well, not really
I said alright, now you go down
by the Columbia River
when you take that Jecto
when you get over that bridge
you throw it as far into the river as you can
get out your old mock mouthpiece
that you've always played all your life
and just play a couple days
and then he called
about three or four days later
he called me
you were right, I played great
it feels wonderful
so you see what happens with mouthpieces
when you start changing mouthpieces
that's the beginning of the end
and you never will stop
I got in serious trouble
one time with a mouthpiece
Clark had been gone for a long time
and I'd been around
and he said why don't you
why don't you try
so-and-so's mouthpiece
why don't you play it
you'd do great on that
so I went and got it
and I didn't want to at all
it just shows you we're all
susceptible to talk and pressures
so I got it
and it didn't really feel that good
but I kept going
one day one of the conductors came up
and he said hey, want to go to lunch
I said yeah
he's not that nice
he went over and had lunch
about halfway through the lunch he says
are you feeling okay
I said yeah, I'm feeling fine
he said
are you overworked
are you tired
he said well maybe we've been working
with you hard
would you like some time off
let's take a couple weeks and just go out
and he says
we're paid of course
we didn't want to kill you
well we did have some ten hour days
and stuff like that
so I said no, I feel fine
I said why
well he says
you're just not sounding like yourself
and then boy I got the jolt
there was this great new mouthpiece
that was supposed to play better
and I got rid of it
what's that like?
so mouthpieces
are dangerous
now let's take some of these
now that's the general principle
that we're talking about
mouthpiece, you pick it up and you look at it
ooh that looks pretty good
I think I'll try that
what can he see looking in the cut
that's only part
part of the mouthpiece
the critical part is the back part
and you've got parts
yeah let's put parts
and you've got that
oh you know
now this is
somebody asked me the other day
well didn't they ever fool with mouthpieces
well of course
they were pioneers
they probably tried all kinds of things
but the notable thing is what they ended up with
and then they never
changed again
and they didn't let their students change
now notice this is a V-type cup
quite long
but there's still a curve
as I say there's always a curve
now here's the drill
the number 20 drill
now then
the straight away comes down about here
as you can see
and then you start a gradual
curve and notice how it curves out
so you've got a chamber
where you're going to get some sound
it's open
and it's free
now Clark has the largest
open cup of all
and yet you listen to his records
if you've ever heard him in person
his range is up to
triple C, F of S
so it wasn't the mouthpiece
that he was doing, it wasn't
alright, now that's Clark's
now these are going, I'm going to show you the actual
cut through
I put ink on the mouthpiece
and stamped it so it got this
out of line
alright, now that's Clark's, now let's take Dell Stakers
now Dell Stakers
you'll notice
his straight away is not quite as long
but the cup is not
quite as long either
but it's the same type
it comes down a V-type
it's a slight curve and comes down
now it goes into the straight away
and it was a number 20 drill
I had them out, this is the one that
copied the rim off of
now you notice after the straight away it starts curving
and it curves out to a nice
open backboard
now take my
personal, if you notice actually
it's about
a little between Stakers and Clark
same type cup
straight away, I can't see
those joints at once, we'll see it go on the other
the back down here
now it starts the exact same
like one of the students just in one room, he could get one
he said because he played it, one of the people
there, he played it and he loved the sound
that's why you
can get sound
you don't necessarily
get a particular mouthpiece
symphony, jazz
rock or anything else
you're the one that makes the sound
years ago these players
were all symphony players
it was the main thing in those days
that's the mouthpieces
they played
and what was the sound they got? Beautiful
lush sound
every time you change something
in there, you're going to change the sound
to some degree
and what would be the best sound?
would be lush
with an edge from one
or absolute wow
when you don't want the edge
you can't do that with a mouthpiece that only gives you edge
or only gives you gulp
you've got to have an open three mouthpiece
so that you can do it
alright now you remember those, all these three together?
alright now here's Clark
you notice
he has the longest cup of all
and in terms of high notes he played higher than anybody
in terms of tone
he had a better sound than anyone
you don't get it on the records
you can't hear his sound on records at all
because they were bad recorded
weren't bad played, they were bad recorded
but I heard him play
after he hadn't played for many many years
with those lush
velvet sounds they were on
alright now stagers
you can see them right next, they're the difference of the same
he had a nice cup
but not quite the bowl of Clark had
then you have the straight away
Clark straight away
about to hear
stagers wasn't quite that far
he was about to hear
and then you notice though
the back doors are absolutely the same type
now mine goes the same way
a little more cup
than stagers had
but you notice exactly the same type of cup
20 drill
and it comes down into straight away
and exactly the same type
of one back door
but now notice everybody says
ooh I can't play that tub
does that look like a tub
does that look like that much of a cup in there
it's not really
you get that because you look down in with a cup
and ooh that's a big
think Masashi
and his students in Japan are all on that office
right Masashi
they're all on it, and how do they do
how do they play it
very well
but if you have a
prejudiced mind you're going to put it aside
prejudice is terrible
alright now let's think
those are the standard
of the best mouthpieces
that I have ever seen
and after
I once got injured
every other mouthpiece pushed out
stuffy, edgy
fighting you, you get tired quick
everybody says oh I couldn't play that
I couldn't quite last a job out
Michigan, you could play longer
as I might have said a minute ago
I have many 10 hour days for the students
and then I also
did the things like
Carl's going out
you just blow your brains out at night
okay now
let's take the next one now
I think we have some actual photographs of the mouthpiece
this is Clark
now that's the actual mouthpiece
see the beautiful
curve down through here
you can see here straight away
and then you start to curve
into that nice open free
back door
that's where the mouthpiece
is either good or bad
is the part that you can't see
now if you have a bad
back door and your mouthpiece is restricted
so you don't have it thrown out
that doesn't help this at all
that just makes it a little larger
which might relieve some pressure
okay, next one
that's Davis
now notice he's really
seen it straight away he is
not really involved
there's not to be able to see it straight away
and then the same type beautiful shape
back door
the cup is the same type cup but not quite as long
or as much bold as the cup
now this is mine
now you notice the same type cup
almost between Clark's
and Stager's
then straight away
look about here
and now comes that same back door
so that's not some
original idea I had
we're all going to make a mouthpiece
it's a mouthpiece based on the good mouthpieces
that I use to probably work
the best
okay now let's take a look at the mother mouthpiece
are you talking about the mother?
I showed you those first
to make the
to show you what constitutes
what I call a free open
we can
start in if they're not
can you find them?
this is the first time I've done this
with these slides so that's why I know that
everything is coordinated
well that's
now this is a very
tight mouthpiece that's very popular
right now and sold a lot I'm going to try to leave
names out of it because I have not understood
to whose it is
now look at it
a little
tiny cup
quite a long straight away
and it's this particular one
has a pointy throat
now then
notice how the mouth
the back more stays straight
but it basically stays straight
that's going to be
the resistance
now that's a little dark
you can tell from
the fact that
we have
a very shallow cup
can you bring that down
a little bit?
even if it comes on
off the edge
pull that one because I think that's
the worst mouthpiece of all
it's holed up when I look at it like
I hear Dave laugh
I know where he knows what I'm talking about
okay now this one
a little shallow mouthpiece
very sharp here
it's a
straight away
all the way from here to here
you can see the edge of it
it bowls a little bit
the back more could be okay
but it's very narrow and tight
and it does have a curve
you can tell from
the contour
listen to the
surface layers
look at
the tremendously shallow cup
actually there's the edge of the cup
right there
now if you're trying
to play that you're going to probably hit the bottom
of the cup
it's a highly advertised New York mouthpiece
then he's got
quite a wide throat which you'd have to have
to compensate for that terrible cup
down in he gets down in here
straight away goes to here
so that's not too bad
and then he gets very narrow in here
and then it flares all of a sudden
and then at the bottom now you can raise it up
and at the bottom
all of a sudden
it gets too wide you can't see it too well
when it comes out like this
it gets too wide and as a result
the resistance is destroyed
all the way to your mouth
I think that's the same mouthpiece
that's the same
you see what I mean though
all right now this is
this is handy this has got
a way to put sleeves on it
to see how close you'd get it or how far
it could leave it
so I didn't have a rim around it
it was a screw rim
now boy this is really a mouthpiece
or you can put rims on it
a screw on and you can put sleeves on it
on it the only one that's going to make money
is the mouthpiece maker
now notice how it's narrow here
now notice the cup is
almost flat and then
it rounds
too soon so it makes it almost
the wrong way
okay now then
straight away goes to here
which is a little too long
and then the backboard stays very
narrow all the way
that's very very tight
and you're going to have problems with that
this is the first one I showed you
oh is that the last
slide oh this
I have a slide of four
I have a slide of four mouthpieces
together okay yeah we'll do that again
this is probably the worst disaster
that has ever been
it's called an A4A
now first place
this mouthpiece
will destroy you
and yet you guys will come out
I've seen in clinics demonstrating this mouthpiece
and playing
and they can play a high note
loud possibly
but with no sound
all edge there's no body whatsoever
and of course the excuse is
well that's the sound
that's just
sheer talk
I've had
several students doing the recording sessions
and the engineer
like they'll say
oh well this cuts well you can hear that
all out there
and I've had them go into recording sessions
guys were playing in and the engineer keeps backing
the student up that has the open
mouthpiece because he's covering all these guys
you only want to tell you that boy if it's real
you're going to think you're going to go further
that's what they think
can you imagine Bud Hurson
doing the Mahler fifth
playing a mouthpiece
like this
he wouldn't be heard in the violin section
and yet
what he plays he can cover
the whole orchestra
he can't do it on this kind of a thing
now first of all notice
tremendously shallow cup
there's the edge of the cup right there
now that comes down
very narrow
now look at the straight away
it starts here and goes straight away
no taper whatsoever
absolutely straight
then a very
narrow back bar
and you'll notice all of a sudden at the bottom
it flares out
which gets you completely out
of balance with the rest
but look at that horrible straight away
from there to down to there
that's actually just a straight hole
and that mouthpiece
probably sells more
than school to any mouthpiece in the country
that's the famous
and you'll notice I didn't mention them
in the back
okay now let's put the
four of them together
see if we can add anything on there
here's the one I showed you
now when I was speaking you didn't see it
the back bars are all narrow
that's the
that's the trend today
if you go to a mouthpiece maker
that's what they'll make or even smaller
and some of the drill
like an A4A
that drill size is generally a 28
oh my gosh you've got a
little tiny drill
and then a straight away that goes halfway
down the mouthpiece
do you realize how much you can
see these kids in those college
they're trying to get something through there
and they think that's
making them play high
you take one
I don't care how fine a player he seems to be
that's playing one of those mouthpieces
you take him up
and say okay
bring him up in front of the whole group
now he's a top player
top rating player
and take St. John, who's got a St. John's
volume 2
thank you now
when you see that
and if I get
on you in a minute
I'm waiting for this
and you get off the mouthpiece and you say alright
now you've got
the mouthpiece in your arm out
come up here and let me hear
you play
and it makes
252 of them
on the book
you come up here with that little mouthpiece
let me hear you play that eight to seven
that's two pages long
moves all over the entire
and with one of those
little tiny mouthpiece you're not complaining
there's no way
can you see it
20 other kids
because the mouthpiece won't let you play
in fact
most of the guys using that can't get down
to the bottom of the staff
all they can do
is sweep and force
so it's not going to work
now again
I don't care what anyone plays
you can change the mouthpiece
don't change mouthpieces
but if it's too small
you do have to get
one that's open
don't have one that's open
and don't experiment
make sure it's a good
mouthpiece based on
those other things we've had
give a good open
free mouthpiece
now somebody comes up and says well I'm going to start a beginner
why do I start a beginner
do you have a beginner's mouthpiece
there's no such thing as a beginner's mouthpiece
every beginner
I would start on my first
and then say now don't you ever
do that again in your life
so if he starts on it and goes to it
he'll be alright
if he starts changing
then he's going to get in trouble
get the finest mouthpiece
open, free mouthpiece
and never change it
this is a good question
you wonder why can't we get
instant manufacturers to
put out a good mouthpiece with the horn
the reason is
you ever see
you ever see someone come in and try a horn
they pick up a horn
that's all they do
that's the way they try it
so if you want to see a horn
does this horn play high
they don't but they want the horn to play high
so they get a small mouthpiece
so the manufacturer generally puts out
some kind of a close
thing where it's small and ready
Bach puts out a standard
like remember the other night
80,000 different models
boy that can get you confused
all your life
it won't do anything
now somebody came up the other day and said
well Mr. Evans plays a Bach mouthpiece
that's right he does
there's nothing wrong with that
you say well how come he plays a Bach
well when Dave first came to me
I don't know whether Dave wants to tell the story or not
but I'm going to
when Dave first came
Dave was going to do a feature in the town
very fine
one of the best
and he said well if you want to get high notes Dave
you've got to get to a small amount he put him on one of these
I think this one
and Dave was so frustrated
he didn't get
higher he wasn't getting as high as he was
I said well Dave
what did you play before
he said well I had
a Bach one and a half I think
and I said well then what are you
doing I said how did you play on that
he said well I didn't feel
really that good but I played okay
I said all right
and you can go back and still have it
I said all right you can go back that much
but he didn't stay
on that mouthpiece because those back ones
were pretty tight
they put them out tight because
the higher the higher
and the kids all want to play higher
he has the mouthpiece
that he felt comfortable on
he's got a much larger drill
and a full-smit back one
so he's playing an open mouthpiece
so again I don't care who the manufacturer is
why not in the mouthpiece business
but get a good open mouthpiece
and it's your question they just don't make it
because they go by the theory
that you play small
like you take the whole
new north mouthpieces the Jepton
series and the
Chilpe series
and they all go along the theory
again here we get the theory
well want to go higher
go slower
it's not true
it's just like the hornet when they go high in the hornet
kids come in when they
listen to the clinic and I say hello
you can open that up now
they have a
and the
bell of a horn they call this
the Hino horn
they advertise it a billion
double C
because that is so important right now
a billion double C
that is the bell
of a horn
slightly until the very end
we're not
I didn't get one of them
and the theory
that that could play higher
it's going to play tighter
and just give you a hard time playing
the things that make
the horn play higher don't exist
you play higher
but the horn can restrict you
and it can help you
now if the horn is made right
it's going to be easier for you
to play higher
so the horn
has got to respond, that's all
the horn has got to respond
now then
is there any questions on that?
can you say something about cup diameter or rim width?
the wider the rim
the worse
the narrower the rim that you can use
the better
the wider the rim
it's cutting off more circulation
like that old crystal rim
if you're on a grid
it sounds great
why don't you talk about what you mean by wider rim
not the cup diameter
well, Jamie
why do you mean by wider rim?
oh I see
you got a one and a half C or seven C
you make a thicker rim
yeah, yes
the width of the rim itself
now then
the narrower that you can use
the better
because it's not cutting off all that circulation
but you notice
you always have to put a little seasoning on it
the narrower that you can use
now the standard rim
if you notice which is on my mouth
it's quite narrow
but it's a great feeling rim
so when he designed it
it was ingenious
but that mouthpiece doesn't
exist anymore either
so now cup diameter
probably wanted something on that too
the most common cup diameter
of all time was about
what Bach called a seven
that was the most common
it varied slightly in different ways
then I think
the most popular
that he uses now is probably one and a half
which so close
that I doubt if you could even measure
so about in that range
is what all the greats use
now I know there's
one advertising in New York
advertising now is
I know mouthpiece absolutely
the smallest mouthpiece ever made
that makes sense
now is there any other questions on mouthpiece
now remember I don't care what you play
but on my students
if they come in with one of those tight
things like that A4E
they're not going to study it
they're either going to change it
because they're not going to get anywhere
and I'm not going to be responsible
so get the most open
good mouthpiece you can find
whoever manufactures
as long as it's a good open mouthpiece
now you're going to have to understand these principles
if you don't know what is good or bad
the sound is what you make
not the mouthpiece
I just want to
is the CG7
the same as what you call the CG personal
no, the CG personal
is more open, that's the type I showed you
but that's about it, that's a schmitt backboard
that time I didn't have
a personal name
it has a schmitt backboard which is a very good backboard
that one has a 22 drill
which is a 22 or 20
that's about it
you know how the difference between the 22 and the 20
about the thickness of half of your hair
one hair
you couldn't see it
couldn't measure it, yeah I see guys
let me see
I can't tell anything
that's a good mouthpiece
I had a friend
making a cup a little bit
he was playing comfortably
and he sounded pretty good
don't change mouthpiece just to change them
because you're going to end up in trouble
sometime you go to a teacher
and the first thing he does is change mouthpiece
a lot of teachers have the
very sad
attitude of when a student comes in
the first thing they've got to do is find something wrong
that's not necessary
suppose the student comes in
and plays good, why don't they say hey
that sounds great, now let's go from there
and you build him up further
you don't have to find something wrong
you don't have to change a mouthpiece and immediately comes in
I like the fact that I saw
the student up north last week
crash on a full mouthpiece
but I didn't change it in the first lesson
I was trying to get a little more in
and I think that's the better solution
do you have an arm?
just a quick one, I've seen a lot of guys take like
solder and wrap it around the outside of a mouthpiece
they have a mouthpiece out of sterling silver
or lead
all kinds of materials to make it heavier
that's all nonsense
let's try, let's have fun for just a minute
you want to try something?
have you all got your tongue level book?
get your tongue level book
now this is just for fun
I just want to show you something
and I know that it fits
in situations like this
if you were playing in the old
big time radio shows
when everything was absolutely live
there was no chance of
missing them
you have to do it right
so there were some
shows that were just devastating
this particular show
I almost got ulcers for a year
and finally I got used to it
I never let the conductor know I might get ulcers
I got used to it finally
now on page
I have taken
I used to sit on that show
and after the show was over
I would take a piece of paper and anything
and copy that queued up
it's not extremely high
it doesn't have to be high
we have lots of highways
but that doesn't have to be high
you have to be accurate
absolute accuracy
now you would get
three chances
now the one I'm going to use
is the first one
number two
you come in
in the afternoon
now they never run over the queues
for you to run your reason
they expect you to play
the first time over
that's what you're hired for
but you don't
run into a school situation
and you practice and practice and practice
many of them you practice
you practice one day and you're wiped out from the concert
that's a pattern that goes
it's very disastrous
you come in
you sit down
the librarian comes in and passes out the queues
now the way they did it
they don't have
a book of music for pages
each queue like that number two
is on one sheet of paper
this is so you can't make any
mistakes of what you're going to play
because everything's live
the actors are right here
the sound people are right here
and the orchestra of which in this case
was a French horn
trumpet, reed, organ
and percussion
that's all
it's very unique to play
so you come in, you sit down
and the librarian passes out these queues
now one queue on the sheet
when you've played it, you turn it over
can't miss, the next queue is in order
no one tells you number two, number two
no one says a word
you play the second queue
turn it over
and you wait, when the conductor sits down
he's got his earphones on, he's listening to the script
when he stands up
you know you're about ready for the next queue
then the minute he raises his arm up
you take a good breath, because you know you're going to play
the conductor
is well-matched
he and wife are greatly different
so he'd stand up
all of a sudden he'd look at all the slides
and look up to where they were coming from
and you better come in, and you better not miss
and if you miss
every trumpet player in town
used to listen to this show every week
I was waiting for me to miss
and you knew they were
all right, so this first queue
and then the orchestra came in for a bar track
that first note was just trouble
look at the notes
and think of that standard
all right, as I said, you come in
and you run it down, you run all the queues down
and see that there's no mistakes in the music
not for you
if you start missing it the first time
let's not worry about you
all right, then you come in
and the next thing you do is a dress rehearsal
so that's the second chance you get
now the third time you do it
is the balance
the conductor goes to the booth and he balances
okay, now then
that's the last chance you get
because you go on the air
about four or five minutes later
so you better
have it be able to play
now it used to be very frightening
because the show itself was frightening
but the queue you played was much more frightening
and it was meant to be that way
because all its effects are to keep that audience
just like this
the audience doesn't know if the music is doing it
but the music is doing it more than the story
that's what's sad about television today
you go on
you've got a love scene going on
and you've got a
that doesn't put you in that kind of mood
then you've got a
scene going down the street with guns
and you've got the same
not that way
okay, now I want to
cover for you
I'm going to put you on the spot, but don't worry
because I don't expect it to come out
it takes a lot of experience
to do these things
I want a cover player
one of you now that plays real good
not afraid to try it
if you're messing up, which you probably will, I don't care
it's all fun, we're going to have some fun
but this is what you were under
the pressure you were under in those
radio games
who wants to try it?
I'm sure I have reached her
the cover player will sit here
the cover player will sit here
on these shows
you did sit down
you didn't stand up
you're not used to it, you're probably like this anyway
okay, now the
cue is this
alright, now the story's going on
let's talk about
when the
when you get ready for the cue
you stand up
so you stand up, now he knows
he's got to get ready to play
and the cue
okay, now he's watching
the cue
he's watching the cue
it's like you get three chances
in the studio to play it over
you get three chances to do it
those aren't easy intervals
that was very good
alright, now we're
going to dress rehearsal
I'm pretty ready
good sound check
now see, down the air
in those days that wouldn't be common at all
again it was a good honest guess
you could not
guarantee your life
that you wouldn't miss a note
it's impossible
because you wouldn't be able to
now we're going down the air
now that the show's going on
everything is
let me watch this
the sound effects
right behind you, everything's going on
okay, now we'll start the show
are we good?
you never know
what's going to happen
there's many times
I had a chance to recover, but there's many
times when that mouth was hitting up on my nose
yeah, beautiful
I'm going to give a big hand
to the actors and screen
and the sound effects man
the sound effects man
would make the gun shot
thank you
who's talking
okay, that was really good
you get the point